Opinions on HeR's bold move: Positive, Negative, or Neutral?

[Ndfan1234]

Thank you for your post, I agree with many points that you made. I myself cannot judge on this issue, as I have not played Sea of Darkness. However, I will say that I am saddened to hear people say that the presentation of this inclusion is not "kid-friendly" or is a mature theme that should not have been a part of this game. From what I gather the source of this debate is a single text message (not even character dialogue) that could easily be missed for one who is not meticulous to the game's details. To say that a single text message has somehow tarnished the character or "friendliness" of this game towards all ages or those of various backgrounds is perplexing at best.

Even in the case that one is a Christian or of a belief/background/viewpoint that disagrees with homosexual relationships what is it about the inclusion of a single text message that would cause one to need to explain the dynamic dimensions of sexuality to their child or to someone who asked what a lesbian is? Quite frankly, it is a relationship between two women. Whether or not that relationship is wholesome or not varies between the individuals, and the same could be said of heterosexual couples. To be honest the heterosexual relationships between some characters in the Nancy Drew series (ie. Deirdre from Alibi in Ashes) have struck me as not being the most "family-friendly" examples for young individuals.

From another perspective I'm surprised to see as much backlash regarding this particular inclusion versus say the "non-family-friendly" topics of witchcraft (Abby from Message in a Haunted Mansion), countless murderous culprits/creatures, or the topics of psychological disturbance (Minette from Danger by Design) that have been prevalent throughout the entire Nancy Drew series. At what point is something "safe" or "friendly" for the entire family? This line is very difficult to draw. Regardless I think a text message is a far cry from challenging the family friendly standard set by the Nancy Drew games.

This topic, like any other topic of diversity or beliefs, should not be excluded from the game on the basis that it does not coincide with your own beliefs. From what I understand HER Interactive has not promoted LGBT individuals as being justified in their beliefs any more than they have promoted the activities of believing in the supernatural or other controversial topics that can naturally lead to complex and debatable discussions in "adult" life. LGBT lives are some of the threads that makes up the colorful tapestry of life, whether or not I agree with it is irrelevant. The text message is not a theme or instance that has communicated ill-intent or something malevolent towards any demographic or individual that I am aware of, so I struggle to see why it should be offensive towards any player of the Nancy Drew games (child or adult). The key here, that I believe some are perhaps missing, is that the inclusion of this text means different things for different people. For some it is a validation of their own lives and beliefs; for others it is a relationship between humans that is not in accordance with what they themselves believe as appropriate. However just like any story, character, or interaction with fellow human beings I encourage the active pursuit of understanding each other and respect that each deserves. As far as I can tell this text message has not encouraged anything adverse to the prior standard. It is quite neutral in its own right.

One thing I disagree with in the poster's comment that I quoted is that I do not necessarily I "want" to see more of this in future Nancy Drew games. With "this" I mean the necessary visibility of LGBT individuals. If they appear that's fine. If they don't always appear that's fine too. I want games that represent the diversity of our world. If a game features a Christian I don't take offense to their beliefs as challenging my own. If a game features a Muslim or Atheist same story. This factor is no different when it comes to homosexuality, heterosexuality, racial, or ethnic topics. These viewpoints and lives are dynamic insights into our own world. I want HER to create rich and dynamic games, hence I want characters who have dynamic rather than monolithic backgrounds as well. Hopefully the distinction I am trying to make in this post is clear.

Regardless, I hope this community can continue to enjoy the diversity of the Nancy Drew games; rather than feel that the inclusion of different beliefs is an offense aimed personally at them.

I really appreciate your comment (as well as everyone elses! Good job everyone for keeping it really civil so far! Keep it up! ) I think the point with the conversation about parents not wanting their kids to learn about this isn't that they are a couple, at least from my perspective, it's that the topic of lesbians and homosexuality can lead to kids asking questions about things that the parents don't want to have to explain until they're a little older. I'm not even saying that SEA had that. It didn't. But if it did in the future, I think that's why people are worried about it if it were to show up in future games...

[WWNDD12]

I really appreciate your comment (as well as everyone elses! Good job everyone for keeping it really civil so far! Keep it up! ) I think the point with the conversation about parents not wanting their kids to learn about this isn't that they are a couple, at least from my perspective, it's that the topic of lesbians and homosexuality can lead to kids asking questions about things that the parents don't want to have to explain until they're a little older. I'm not even saying that SEA had that. It didn't. But if it did in the future, I think that's why people are worried about it if it were to show up in future games...

Exactly. We are trying to think ahead and trying to watch out for people. Like Will said, the topic of homosexuality isn't that huge of a deal (especially in this game) if the parent can just leave it as girl likes girl or boy likes boy, but that leads to a lot of other questions that depending on the maturity level it could be inappropriate for the parents to answer the questions.

For now, if HeR stays neutral I'm fine. I am bothered with how intentional the reference had to have been but I can't change anything that is already done. I hope HeR decides to leave this out but HeR doesn't seem to be listening very well lately. (But SEA did boost my confidence a little)

Great posts, everyone. Even if I disagree with you I like that we can all be calm about the situation and speak in love and not in hate.

[disneygirl12]

I myself have yet to reach the point in the game where this addressed, so for now I can only go off of what others have explained.

The idea of there being an LGBT character in this game doesn't really bother me. It adds a nice little diversity. If the series were to have more LGBT characters in the future, though, I would hope that they handle the situation the way they did in SEA (again, going off of what I've read from these posts) -- by simply addressing that the character is such and not going much beyond that (I'll consider the text message that reveals this in SEA as "addressing"). I know it can be a sensitive topic to some players and I wouldn't want for HeR to focus on it so much that they became too uncomfortable with it. So if they can handle it professionally as they seem to have done in SEA, then I'd say I'm fine with it.

And, of course, I totally respect other opinions. This is a really neat discussion and I'm interested to see what others have to say, as there have already been some very well-said posts here.

[Mr.E]

Like Will said, the topic of homosexuality isn't that huge of a deal (especially in this game) if the parent can just leave it as girl likes girl or boy likes boy, but that leads to a lot of other questions that depending on the maturity level it could be inappropriate for the parents to answer the questions.

I think that this is the most common concern that I've seen voiced about this issue, and I really appreciate how articulately you put it here. However, I don't think that HeR will go down this route -- the company has never presented a relationship between two characters in a way that is anything other than G or PG-rated, and I doubt that they will start now. So many children's shows, movies, and books have started to introduce LGBT characters and represent the concept of the LGBT family, and I doubt that many 10-year-olds who play the game will be shocked or confused by the reference. Due to increasing LGBT visibility, pretty much everyone knows someone belonging to the LGBT community, whether it's a family friend, a family member, the parents of a friend, a babysitter, or a teacher. At the age of 10, some players might even be starting to come to terms with their own orientations, or their friends might be. Visibility of the LGBT community has increased exponentially since when we were young players, and I think that most 10-year-olds are aware of the existance of same-gender relationships. HeR is brave to put this subject in the series, but it's not the first company to do so; in fact, it's a little late in the game (no pun intended ).

When I was a kid, there was very little representation of differing orientations in children's TV and literature, and I think that this something that a lot of members on this board experienced. It can be difficult to remember that times have changed, and that the experience of children in the upcoming generation will be different than ours was. The world is becoming a more accepting place, and, personally, I'm glad to see HeR taking a part in it. I realize that not everyone shares this opinion, and I think that this just serves as another example of the wide variety of beliefs and lifestyles that exist in our world. I love the diversity of our society, and I'm glad to see it mirrored by the games.

[Ndfan1234]

I think that this is the most common concern that I've seen voiced about this issue, and I really appreciate how articulately you put it here. However, I don't think that HeR will go down this route -- the company has never presented a relationship between two characters in a way that is anything other than G or PG-rated, and I doubt that they will start now. So many children's shows, movies, and books have started to introduce LGBT characters and represent the concept of the LGBT family, and I doubt that many 10-year-olds who play the game will be shocked or confused by the reference. Due to increasing LGBT visibility, pretty much everyone knows someone belonging to the LGBT community, whether it's a family friend, a family member, the parents of a friend, a babysitter, or a teacher. At the age of 10, some players might even be starting to come to terms with their own orientations, or their friends might be. Visibility of the LGBT community has increased exponentially since when we were young players, and I think that most 10-year-olds are aware of the existance of same-gender relationships. HeR is brave to put this subject in the series, but it's not the first company to do so; in fact, it's a little late in the game (no pun intended ).

When I was a kid, there was very little representation of differing orientations in children's TV and literature, and I think that this something that a lot of members on this board experienced. It can be difficult to remember that times have changed, and that the experience of children in the upcoming generation will be different than ours was. The world is becoming a more accepting place, and, personally, I'm glad to see HeR taking a part in it. I realize that not everyone shares this opinion, and I think that this just serves as another example of the wide variety of beliefs and lifestyles that exist in our world. I love the diversity of our society, and I'm glad to see it mirrored by the games.

You bring up a good point. I agree wholeheartedly that there's a lot more awareness of the LGBT community. It doesn't mean I agree with it, but the media and TV definitely put it out there all the time. And I'm sure some kids know about LGBT things early on, but some still don't, and I think that's what the concern for the future mostly stems from. As prominent as it is becoming, some kids still wouldn't hear about it and parents definitely could feel very shocked that it's in a game that's rated E10+. Not because it's like R-rated or something, but because it's not something you expect from it, despite the rising prominence in culture. They're kids games, that many adults can enjoy as well of course, but when it comes down to it, they are really kids games and while some know about LGBT, some don't

[DPL_93]

Nice to see some good discussion!

I'm kind of neutral the reference didn't bother me at all, I would rather not see Homosexuality or Homophobia promoted in a game not that I think HeR has ever done either of that but especially in a game that is targeted to people under 18. Same thing applies to religion it should be kept out of games. Nancy Drew is suppose to a detective not somebody who decides what is morally right or wrong.

[paperstreet]

I have my own beliefs, but I would never expect anyone, especially a total stranger or an entire society, to have to live under my own choices and belief system. I would never expect a game manufacturer to cater to my tastes, and shun a total segment of society that already has it hard enough, along with the huge population of people that support them.

I dont eat meat, because I dont like the way they treat animals in factory farms, but I can deal with meat in games, on tv, etc because not everyone is me, and I am cool with that.

I just don't understand people who say, "I dont have problems with an LBGT individual, but I dont think they should be shown in games." You obviously have a problem with LBGTs then or you really wouldnt care.

It should never be an act of tremendous courage just to be the way you are born. Kids today are more ok with this stuff than their parents. Name one girl under 12 who doesnt know about the Kardashians and Bruce Jenner.

[phoenix star]

I know that this is a very sensitive topic and can start fights easily. If everyone explains themselves well and everyone is respectful,

okay but this isn't a matter of opinion, this is literally about whether you respect certain people or not like it's that simple

and let's say Nancy did "affirm" something you didn't like - that doesn't mean you have to stop playing. It's a reflection of Nancy's character, not yours. She can enthusiastically call herself a "one-woman NSA" in LIE which is pretty scary but it fits with Nancy's classically conformist character, for example.

I think HER made a mistake including a gay character in their game. They have now delved into political correctness. It goes without saying we should love one another and accept them, but to place a character with a lifestyle in a Nancy Drew game to be politically correct...this isn't good. What will they include next?

i know maybe the books will even be reprinted to be less racist

[Royal Payne]

Great posts! I just read through them all.

I felt like this was HeR's way of, as my dad would say, 'testing the waters'. If we accept that text, then having an LGBT character relationship in the game would be their next move. I would not like that, therefore I am stating that I don't want that.

I still liked Dagny in SEA; I didn't like that one text, but I liked her. I'm going to leave it at that.

And the first Nancy Drew books that were printed in the 1930's were revised in the 1950's to take out racial slurs so I'm not sure where you are coming from there. Was that supposed to be sarcasm? Because sometimes I'm bad at getting sarcasm in text.

[secretsleuth89]

I was not concerned at all to see this reference in SEA. In fact, I was pleased. It shows how diverse the characters, both original and new to the Nancy Drew universe, are. I am happy with how HeR shapes their characters in the games and try to relate them to today's world. I'm sure there would have been many discussions at the company as to how best to introduce this relationship to the fans. While I am not religious, I am accepting of people's beliefs and opinions, so long as they do not do harm to others.

I truly believe that HeR wanted this story to be told, and I was pleased with how it turned out. That is my opinion.

[nancy_d._rules]

And the first Nancy Drew books that were printed in the 1930's were revised in the 1950's to take out racial slurs so I'm not sure where you are coming from there. Was that supposed to be sarcasm? Because sometimes I'm bad at getting sarcasm in text.

It is sarcasm. Reread the the last quote in pheonix star's post. KCslueth does not like the "political correctness" of including an LGBT character. Taking out the racial slurs would be an example of political correctness. I'm sure when the books were reprinted there were people upset about the "political correctness" and thought the books were 'fine' the way they were. However, if someone today were to lament that changing the books to get rid of the slurs (as well as some other questionable plot resolutions: see the original Lilac Inn plot) was a bad thing, there would be swift backlash.

I don't see how HeR is taking a hard stance on the subject considering how easily the text revealing it is so easily missed. However, I am glad it is in there. Regardless of what you believe, LGBT people are out there in the world and it makes sense that Nancy would come across one at some point. In regards to the 'kid friendly' argument, there are plenty of other situations that I can see parents not wanting to explain to their kids. I'll put my example in spoiler code since I don't know what can be said on this board.

GTH:

Harper describes herself has having eratic behavior and violent tendencies and openly voiced wanting to push neighborhood bullies down a well. She even went to the Millicent P. Krauthammer Sanitarium for Criminally Insane Girls and Women of Good Social Standing. She even got a certificate that she was no longer a danger to society. A sanitarium = asylum. Explaining what an asylum is is not the easiest conversation. And really explain it. If you don't want to go into detail about an LGBT relationship, you really should not want to go into detail about an asylum.

Have I made you uncomfortable yet? It really is not an easy subject to discuss.

Harper is considered a fun, interesting character, but explaining everything about her (I haven't even mentioned the family history) to a child to be much harder and less "kid friendly" than talking about Dagny. I don't recall this much controversy around GTH compared to a single line of text in SEA.


For the record, Harper is my favorite character from GTH and I have no issue with an LGBT character in the games.

[Mr.E]

It might be uncomfortable to experience, but in the end, it's not real -- it's a fictional game made up of amazing graphics and wonderful voice acting. Maybe it's a testament to HeR that we keep blurring the lines between reality and gameplay -- the games are so wonderful that we get caught up and start to think of them as real. But although a lesbian named Dagny probably exists somewhere, the Dagny from within the game does not exist, and her life partner Alicia doesn't exist either. They exist within the game, and, like all characters within any of the games, players don't have to agree with everything that they do.

[WWNDD12]

DPL_93, Nicely said! I think it would just turn off a whole other group of fans if Nancy chose one specific "religion" Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Hindu ect... It's just a whole mess that HeR shouldn't get into.

phenix star, Thank you for your concerns.

Royal Payne, Exactly. We are making the fuss now because we don't want to have to make an even bigger fuss (Yep, that's right we can do something even bigger) if they have a full LGBT relationship. HeR is just testing the waters and see how the fans react.

[Ndfan1234]

In regards to nancy_d._rules, that is a good point about GTH. I know all about those old psychological institutions (sitting in psych class as I write this as a matter of fact) and of course I wouldn't want my kids (if I had any) to be exposed to that either. But GTH doesn't specifically address what happened in psych institutions, and many of the psychological themes are so easy to miss. I still don't even understand them all, so I hardly doubt a child would. And I'm not even saying that SEA was really upfront about LGBT, because it wasn't. My point is that there's still a difference, in my opinion, between a psychological "Oh-she's-just-crazy,-honey" theme, and a sexua| "What-is-this-game-teaching-you!?!?!" theme :P But of course that's my opinion, and you can have yours too :)